RacerX recently posted on his views about paying for your children’s college education. Even though he makes over $150,000 a year, he doesn’t plan to help his children pay for college, because he wants to teach them the value of money. A lot of what he says makes sense. But it’s almost the exact opposite of what my parents did, and I think that their viewpoint makes sense too. They viewed paying for a college education as two things: an investment in my future, and my portion the inheritance they would otherwise have left for their children.
They did try to impress upon me the value of a college education. They made me work my last two summers in high school. I ended up being an attendant at an RV park, where people were always yelling at me because the electricity would go out. Just as a side note, attendants do not control the electricity. The local power plant controls the electricity. If the power is out city-wide, yelling at an attendant will not accomplish anything, except to make her vow, every day, that she will go to college, and get a job that does not include mud and irate retirees, who want a rustic experience without any of the inconveniences thereof. That is exactly why my parents made me get a job. They wanted me to know what it was like to work without a degree.
But they did commit to paying for 100% of my college education. I worked 10 hours a week or less in college. Of course, this is something they could do because they are fairly well off (for disclosure’s sake, they have a combined income of around RacerX’s, but my father has a government pension that will pay him a hefty sum plus cover his health insurance for the rest of his life). This means that it was never a choice between paying for my education or funding their retirement. They had enough to do both.
One of the reasons they had enough to do both is because my father went to college. He was the first one in his family to do so. He didn’t have the money to pay for it, nor did his family, so he joined ROTC. They paid for his undergraduate education, and then later for law school. In return, my father spent four years in the military. He hated it. He was assured that he could stay close to his home, but things changed and he ended up moving across the country, to one of those sparsely-populated nowhere states. By the time he got out of the military, my mother was pregnant with me, and they just never got around to moving back to what he called civilization.
But even still, his quality of life is far and above that of the rest of his family. He supplements his mother’s fixed income, and has in the past given his brother’s church a donation so that they could help him pay for heating oil. No surprise that he views college as an investment. He went a step further though, and decided that the kind of college that his children went to would also be an investment. He committed to paying for whatever colleges we could get into, because he believed that the better the reputation of the college, the more doors it would open. He thought that was worth whatever premium he had to pay.
He didn’t necessarily believe that we would receive a better education if we went to a “top” school. He hadn’t gone to a top school, and he’d received an excellent education. But he was willing to pay more for a brand name, because he hoped it would open doors for his children that had been closed to him because he wasn’t part of the old boys club.
In fact, when I started thinking about college, my father refused to let me consider the state school close by, even though I could have gone for free. I think he might have considered it had it been a better state school, but it was one of the ones that had almost no admissions standards, and its specialty wasn’t something that I was interested in. I wanted to go to a small liberal arts college, because I liked the idea of focus on undergraduates, and there were some good ones that would have only required a few hours by plane to get to. I did fairly well in high school, and most of those schools offered me some merit aid. I also had a $2000 a year private scholarship, which would have covered about ten percent of the cost at some of those schools. I had applied to one university, a good brand-name one on the east coast, about 3000 miles away from home, just to see if I could get in. I did. Tuition was about 30,000 a year. Add in room and board and the price tag topped 40,000. I went to visit schools, and ended up torn between two-- a mid-western liberal arts college, and that east coast university. (It was so shiny! And gothic! And the boys wore pink polo shirts, which to this day is a cause for mirth.)
I asked my father to help me choose between schools. He was angry that I was even thinking about the liberal arts college. Go to the big-name school, he told me. So I did. I majored in Comparative Literature with a Chinese concentration, which he hated. He wanted me to be a doctor. He was of the decided opinion that, and I quote, “The world needs doctors, and you’d make money. What the world doesn’t need is one more poor person who speaks Chinese.” Ouch.
But I’m not poor. I make good money, with my Comparative Literature degree and my certificates in Chinese and Creative Writing. More than I expected to be making. And I could be making more. I know this because my first job out of college was for a consulting company, where I was hired because of the school I had gone to. (My boss told me this. My boss also went to a brand-name school. He was, and I say this with all sincerity, a moron. Brand-name does not necessarily equal intelligence.) I was living in mid-town
The sad fact is that having a name-brand school on my resume makes things easier for me. In my (admittedly limited) experience, it has opened doors for me that I don’t think would have opened had I gone to my home-town school. And as I look at law schools, you can bet I’m looking a brand-names, and not at the price tag. Because I view them as an investment.
16 comments:
"He went a step further though, and decided that the kind of college that his children went to would also be an investment"
I'm not saying this is a poor choice or anything, but you do realize this is a more of luxury than an actual--most parents do not have that choice.
Are your parents paying for law school?
I think i'm going to write a follow up post on this subject. I'm a little too passionate so I have been trying to bite my tongue in commenting. :)
sorry, forgot a word: actual choice, not just actual
I don't know if my parents will help me with law school or not. I'm working under the assumption that I won't get help, because they've already done more than enough, and because they were serious about college money being my inheritance. My father plans to retire soon, and I don't think there's much left outside of what he'll need for a comfortable life.
And yes, it is a luxury. (Though you might be surprised at the financial aid packages some universities are able to offer. I know a few people who got the same education I did for less than $1000 a year, all because of need-based financial aid.) But some luxury purchases are worth it, even if they demand sacrifices, especially when they double as investments.
I'm not saying that brand-name schools educate people better, or *are* better than other schools. For some students, they wouldn't make sense. But they do open doors. And I think they made sense for me.
In an ironic twist, knowing that I had my school's name behind me gave me the confidence to major in something impractical that I loved, instead of toughing it out in pre-med (oops, sorry dad). Having the freedom to do that was invaluable to me.
I know that this can be a touchy subject, especially since it's wound up in all sorts of other issues (entitlement, elitism, unfair advantages given to people just because of their educational background). It opens up the ugly side of wealth... the influence and power that it can exert on people, and the division between having and not having.
I would love to read your post, if you end up writing it. And if by biting your tongue, you mean calling me a spoiled little rich kid, then I can handle it:) I honestly would like to hear your opinion.
I worked hard to gain entrance to the school I went to, and I worked hard while I was in school too. But that doesn't change the fact that I was incredibly lucky to have parents who saved for my college education, or the fact that I was born with an aptitude for standardized tests. I've had opportunities created for me by my parents and an accident of genetics. It is unfair, or at the very least unequal.
One of the things that pushed me to succeed in college was the nagging thought that I didn't deserve to be there; that someone else should have been given my spot. But all I can really do about that inequality is to do the best I can with what I've been given, and to try and give back.
Thanks for your response! I didn't mean to imply you were spoiled or don't deserve anything, rather, many more people "deserve" the opportunity than can realistically have it.
You do seem to see more than one side, which is all I really like people to do!
Also, the biting my tongue is mostly to prevent me from writing an entire post in someone else's comments section!
PS - Drafting this post I refer to you (don't worry, just to say that you argue that it was a good investment, which i don't fight), and I'm not sure if I can say "she argues" or "He argues"... I guessed she, but please correct me if I'm wrong so I don't insult you!
I, as you can see, have no compunctions about writing an entire post in a comments section:)
And I sympathize with the fact that entitlement makes you angry. Believing that you deserve more than others "just because", is one of the uglier forms of snobbery (and it's an easy habit to fall into as well).
Thanks for not calling me spoiled. It is much appreciated:)
You guessed correctly. I am, in fact, female:)
There are some parts of the book that Freakonomics that suggest that it doesn't matter so much in your future success whether you go to a "brand name" school.... but my own experience is more like shuchong's. Having brand-name schools on my resume helped open doors. I empathize with the thread here that more people deserve more education, but I encourage you, shuchong, not to feel guilty about having had your opportunities. Maybe more people deserved to be there with you, but why didn't you also deserve to be at your college?
Great post and I'm glad to find your blog!
This is an issue I think about a lot because most of the people I work with went to "name-brand" schools, but I didn't. I went to a lower-tiered state school. I went there because my education had to be financed 100% with student loans and scholarships (living expenses and everything), and also because I just wasn't taught how to search for a school. I just went to the school nearest by.
To be brutally honest, I sometimes get a chip on my shoulder towards the "name-brand" school club. I see how easily it opens doors for people when I had to work extra hard to open those doors, and I see the preferential treatment. At the same time, I don't always see a big difference in the caliber of people who graduated from those schools as opposed to state schools.
All that said, when it all comes out in the wash, I still got to where I want to be, which happens to be where a lot of ivy graduates want to be. It was harder for me, but that's ok.
If I'd had the same options you'd had, I absolutely would have gone the name-brand route. But that's because there are unfair advantages in the system based on where you went to school. Sometimes people allow where you went to school to trump your actual qualifications. The unfairness of the system does bother me. In a perfect world, all tiers of education would be equally affordable for everyone. And people would receive all educations equally and focus on the qualities and intelligence of the person.
Of course, we live in a very imperfect world.
@gblogger
Thanks for the comment!
I'm not saying that my feelings of guilt are entirely logical, but they're there. They would pop up with annoying frequency whenever I got lazy in college, and didn't study as hard as I should have. Plenty of other people were turned away from the school I was accepted to. If I wasn't going to work my hardest, then I felt like, in the grand scheme of things, perhaps my spot should have gone to someone who would make the most of the opportunity. At least that thought kept me working hard:)
@Ms. M&P
You sound a lot like my father. (I mean this in the best way possible!) My father went to a state school for some of the same reasons you named (he didn't know about other options, he wanted to be close to home to help his mother, since his father had recently passed away), and he works in a field that pays a lot of attention to name-brands. He's in a great position right now, but he always felt like he could have gotten there more quickly and painlessly if he'd had the power of a top school behind him.
I'm glad that you made it to where you want to be. Best of luck with your (relatively new?) job!
Don't feel guilty, just feel grateful! You aren't spoiled, but blessed. Spoiled would be someone who didn't work hard and didn't appreciate it.
I wrote a post somewhat related to this, but not directly. There is much to be said about, as you mentioned, entitlement and snobbery. I didn't really go there.
Thanks for offering some inspiration!
If guilt drives you to work harder, I guess that's not all bad.... but as I am guessing you are an Asian-American woman, and you have stated you are headed to law school, guilt could have other drawbacks, in my view. The stereotypes of Asian-American women center on quiet and meek. If guilt could drive you toward the stereotypes, it could be an impediment in law school or as a lawyer, IMHO.
By the way, on these lines of comments, I think the "prestigious" schools do tend to open doors -- but I think that that's a short- and medium-term effect. Longer term, the correlation between school and who's the most successful seems to me to break down.
@gblogger
I haven't been out of school long enough to see the equalizing effect (and I work for my alma mater, so I don't actually know very many people who didn't go to top schools) but I'll take your word for it, especially since that's the sense I got from my father, as well as from Ms. M&P above. It's kind of nice to think that hard work is able to eventually overcome the schools we were accepted into at seventeen or eighteen.
And I appreciate your concern about the timid Asian stereotype, but I think I'll be okay on that front. I'm white, but I majored in Comparative Literature with a Chinese concentration. The number of social gaffs and uncomfortable moments required to get me to something resembling fluency actually leeched a lot of the timidity out of me (when you can't learn Chinese if you don't speak it, but can't speak it without embarrassing yourself, you acquire a thick skin pretty quickly).
Well, I guessed wrong! Funny how quick and easy it is to jump to an assumption based on very little information.... There are a lot of stereotypes based just on gender of course, but it sounds like you'll be just fine. How did you settle on law school? Sorry if I am treading over something covered in past posts.
@gblogger
I guess the real answer is that I haven't 100% settled on it yet, but I started seriously thinking about it this past fall, when I started my current job.
I like to do in-depth research. I enjoy writing. I like school. I've basically ruled out academia, because the area in which I'm most interested (Classical Chinese Lit) is a) unmarketable outside the academy and b)really hard to be good at as a non-native speaker. I would, however, like to use my Chinese in my field of work.
I'm bad at math, and I don't think I'd make a good business woman, so business school is out. I prefer detailed work rather than administrative work. I like the feeling of being an expert in something. Oh, and it is also my life-long dream to have my own secretary. The only career I can think of that fits all those criteria is law.
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